豌豆28 www.tiandaomi.com 猎云注：比尔盖茨无疑是全球顶尖的企业家，他曾经拥有这个地球上最多的财富。而如今，他不仅是全球第二的有钱人，更是一名拥有足够多社会责任的慈善家。截至2018年，盖茨夫妇累计捐赠达到360亿美元，相当于目前近一个百度的市值。最近，他接受了网易财经《影响力》栏目的独家采访，在这次采访中，我们看到了他对全球经济形势的理解，更看到了他对于社会发展的思考。
文章来源：网易科技，采访出品：网易财经（ID：money-163）《影响力》栏目，主持：网易传媒副总编辑姚长盛，原标题：《专访 | 捐了一个百度的比尔·盖茨：向富人多征税！》。
NetEase Finance:You used to be the richest people in the world. Now you’re the second?
Bill Gates:That’s right. Well as I give money away, I’d be the fourth and the fifth, in someday I’ll give it all away.
NetEase Finance: We want to know, you were once the richest people in the world, now you’re the biggest donor. Why you make this huge shift?
Bill Gates:When I was working at Microsoft, the goal was to make great software. And the fact that created the value of Microsoft ownership, there is a huge amount of wealth. I didn’t expect that you know. I didn’t need that. That doesn't change how many hamburgers I eat or how many sweaters I wear, so I reached the limit sort of personal consumption a long time ago. So, that extra wealth is available to have an impact. And so, that’s why I studied why children died and thought,” Hey, is this being taken care of?” And in that case, I found that almost no money was going to malaria research. And so I found my cause to turn to my second career, which involves giving this money back in partnership with my wife and Warren Buffet. And so, it’s very fun work. It’s working with scientists, and it’s travelling the world; it’s partnering with a government like China saying “You’re the expert, what are they thinking, what can we do together for seeds and vaccines”. Anyway, it’s very enjoyable, so I’m not making any sacrifice, and I’m not giving up my lunch to do this work, it’s all excess money.
NetEase Finance:In this year your report, Goalkeepers, you said you’ll keep focusing on inequality. So in your mind, what is the inequality most around the world? Women, education, disease control, or income poverty?
Bill Gates:Well, often we talk about income, and that’s pretty important. You know, people living in extreme poverty who don’t have enough resources to buy food always worried about their survival. We really want to get rid of that extreme poverty. But another measure that the foundation has focused a lot on is health. You know, we look at how many children are dying and how we can reduce that number. When we first got started, it was 10 million were dying every year back in the year 2000. And now that’s been cut in half. So it’s about 5 million now. So, that’s really good progress. If you take rich countries, it’s well under 1%, but if you take the poorest countries, there are still places where it’s over 15%. A child in Finland, which is the lowest, had 50 times lower chance of dying than the child in Nigeria, which is a quite poor African country. So that range. You know, our view is that it is one of the greatest injustices, and the world has enough knowledge and resources. We should be able to reduce that dramatically.
NetEase Finance:Every year in the Goalkeepers, on the first page, we saw the 17 goals as topics from the global goals. Which one do you think is easy to achieve, and which one do you think is hard to realise and why?
Bill Gates:Health is very central to all these goals, and that’s where the foundation has chosen to focus. And of course the science of how we make vaccines and how we understand how to stop malaria. Every year the world is getting smarter. So, I put that in a very primary position, because if you’re malnourished and not healthy, then everything else like education or being productive is very very difficult. And if we can really solve health and education, those are the two that to me are enabling. I don’t want to downplay - the environment is very important - all the different goals. But the countries that can take care of themselves are the ones that have really improved health and education. And China is a fantastic example. Starting in 1990, agricultural productivity, investment in education and health. It’s really phenomenal how those things enabled the incredible economic miracle.
NetEase Finance: So, what's your expectation for the next step for the health, even though it's maybe the equality the most? What's the next step for the foundation you want to do?
Bill Gates:Well, I’d highlight two things. First, we still have 5 million children dying every year now. In 2030 we should cut that in half again, get it down to below 2.5 million. And there are some diseases like Poliomyelitis that paralyses children and kill some. That one in the next 3-4 years should be able to be eradicated. Over a longer-term, you know probably in 20-25 years, we should be able to take malaria and eradicate that. That’s still killing, just malaria, over half a million children every year and hurting tens of millions. You know these very aggressive goals. We’re talking with people in China who make malaria drugs and bednets and the government is there strengthening their partnerships with Africa; how can we work together to eliminate malaria.
NetEase Finance: How do you think China can make more contribution to that?
Bill Gates:Absolutely, China’s economic growth has been good for the world. You know China has expertise in many many areas, but now it’s thinking OK and asking African countries what their priorities are. The kind of infrastructure China does is very important. Roads are key to economic growth. But these countries are saying “Hey please help us with malaria” Tanzania as an example where it’s three-ways partnerships now: the Gates Foundation, Tanzania, and China. We’re doing this pilot projects, and we’ve been having some good results. Yes, I think health will be an area that China can help the poor countries a lot.
NetEase Finance:Talking about China, we know that the economic growth is so fast in the past decades, and China depends on two factors: one is globalization, and another one is population bonus, but the situation now is complicated. So do you have any suggestion for China and the Chinese young people?
Bill Gates:Certainly, the quality of education. You know the universities are getting better and better, in some cases like Tsinghua being one of the best in the world, and the other ones are keeping improving. That trend towards the quality of education will allow China in areas with really high-paying jobs and innovative jobs to contribute to both their successes and the world by and large. The economic growth may not achieve the same percentages in the past, but as long as the job market is working well, and the anti-poverty programs are working well, China should be very proud of what it’s doing, even if the absolute economic growth isn’t going to maintain the really high level that you’ve had in the past.
NetEase Finance:What’s your comment to the globalization? Maybe we can find some hinder on that?
Bill Gates:I’m a huge believer in globalization, and the countries mutually benefit from that. Right now, we see some countries pulling back from that, even in some ways the USA is pulling back from that. I think it will be a strong political debate. I don’t think we’ll see a dramatic reversal, but we see there are some voices that speak out against that, and it would be a good, open discussion. The road for innovation, whether it’s health, climate change, or IT, the pace of innovation is going to stay very strong. And that creates huge job opportunities, including China, is doing great work in those areas.
NetEase Finance: That’s good news. In the last Goalkeepers Report, you kept the focus on investing in youth, especially in Africa, because it depends on traditional economics. The healthier you are, the better education for the youth, and you get a better return for that. But do you consider something is changing about the innovation of technology, which has the huge power to change the world? Do you still think the human capital theory is still there?
Bill Gates:Well, the job market is very strong, and the high salaries are there for well-educated people. If you look at the satisfaction and health of those people, it’s very good, so there is a lot of benefit in individual, and for a country, as it invests in health and education of the people. It’s the main asset. Even if we have lots of robots and software, human capital will be super important. Some of the things that require less education like just driving around, it could be substituted, but if anything, that just creates more value to make sure that those educational investments are well done.
NetEase Finance:Do you think we can find more opportunities after the Luis Turning Point? Like China, we can still find more and more population bonus from that? Maybe we can use AI and robots. Do you think it's working?
Bill Gates:Well, I think economic growth can continue even when the workforce is not growing because the productivity of these tools will make the productivity per worker much higher. Even in a society like Japan that is aging, they’ll be able to increase their output which is a good thing, because you want to have those resources to take care of the older generation to help them be able to retire and have benefits. So yes, even as the size of the workforce goes down, the economic opportunities are still huge.
NetEase Finance: That’s good. You must know this book(Factfulness).
Bill Gates:Yeah. Fantastic.
NetEase Finance: Have you tried these certain questions?
NetEase Finance: What was the score?
Bill Gates:It's the field I work in. I think I got one wrong.
NetEase Finance: Just one?
Bill Gates:You know, these questions are about my current full-time job. It’s like asking a cab driver about directions. And I was a friend of Hans. His very first speech at TED I was there. And I realized that he’s telling a story better than I’ve ever heard before, including the story of how you improve health, that actually the population goes down, which is very surprising to many people. And that whole way he presented data, my wife and I got to be very good friends with him. It’s a shame that he died.
NetEase Finance:Yes. That’s so sad. But back to the book, the test. I mean, do you know the truth about his word? Before I came, I read this book; I don’t know the truth. I don’t know the data.
Bill Gates:Most people, even educated people, get less than 50% right. University professors actually do worse than the average person. He is very articulate about this. When we read about disasters, and the news media does a better job of telling us the worst thing anywhere in the world we read about. When I was young, we didn’t know so much about earthquakes or in other countries. And because as human we like to solve problems, we are always looking at, oh, this is a potential problem. Things are going well like reducing childhood death or improving literacy; you don’t dwell on that, you mostly dwell on “Here is where we need to do more work”. So Hans is not saying things have improved so much that we should be lazy. It’s because people care and worry that vaccines have been invented and they are not getting out to more and more children. But to honestly assess, we have to know these numbers that the world has improved and that doing more types of innovation that’s gotten us progress, we should feel good about that.
NetEase Finance:I think Hans has given us a relevant and useful method to divide the whole world in a different way, and this chart is very impressive. But my question is, you live on this side. This is your point.
Bill Gates:Yeah, I’m individually even luckier.
NetEase Finance:But not the foundation, and your full-time job is doing this?
NetEase Finance:How could you create such a huge space for this. It’s across civilization, religions, and different social system, and different education. How do you do that?
Bill Gates:The desire to have your children survive exists in every one of these countries. Mothers want their children to survive. And human biology about..., if the vaccine works in one group of humans, will it work in another group, is essentially the same. By creating a measles vaccine or an HIV vaccine, even though you don’t understand the culture and the practices of these people, you can benefit them. Things like roads and electricity and better seeds are helpful. You make a very good point that to actually deliver these products; you need to connect with the people who live in these communities, whether it’s the tribal leaders or religious leaders. For example, educating a mother that you should vaccine your child in these countries, I don’t know how to do that. But I can make money and make sure they’re creating women’s groups where women get together and talk to each other, and that’s a great form for women to explain to each other about vaccination. You’re right, it takes a lot of work, that how to reach all the children in the world who deserve to get these vaccines. You know, these places are very different, and the government in some places are even not existent.
NetEase Finance: Do you have any pressure to do that?
Bill Gates:It seems like a clear thing to value all these human lives. Once you visit those places, it’s very hard to ignore the problem. If you’ve never been there, you’re kind of like “Yeah I don’t know, is that really that bad? Is it hard to help?” But once you go there and meet those people, I think for the rest of your life you’ll wonder, isn’t that the most morally important that you can work on?
NetEase Finance:Now you’re doing your best and with all your effort to narrow the gap between rich and poor, but unfortunately maybe the statistics are showing the gap may be widened.网易财经：现在您全身心投入到消除贫富差距当中，但遗憾的是，按照数据来看，贫富差距似乎扩大了。
Bill Gates:Actually, global income inequality is going down. And the reason for that is that the middle-income countries like India and China have been growing their economy faster than the rich countries. Although you have some inequality within the country, there is enough equality that globally, incomes are less than equal. Within many countries, inequality has gone up. So that’s a political question, do you have a tax system that’s so progressive that it’s taking more from the rich and creating a stronger safety net to help out the poorest. Our goal isn’t everybody to be exactly equal, but we should have a basic safety net that helps everyone.
NetEase Finance:What’s the best gift you get from the foundation job? As you’re full-time to do that, you were very successful in software-design and now you’re a very famous philanthropist. So, we want to know.
Gates:Well, the progress on global health is super exciting. It's a movement. There's lots of people involved. But to have been part of that, you know, we're really proud of it. And if we can finish polio, which I'm very optimistic, you know, that would be very satisfying. And malaria will take longer, but, you know, that's a milestone I look forward to. So, I love taking on that kind of tough challenges, hiring very smart people with a wide variety of expertise, including science, to do these things. This is fun work and we're seeing progress, you know, and we see that people care about these issues. So, even though we have setbacks, you know, I love it. I'm lucky to have a second career that is very fulfilling.